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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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president obama is going to unveil his immigration reform in a major speech in nevada, a state where hispanics make up 20% of the population. it's after a group of bipartisan senators reached a compromise on how to move forward with comprehensive immigration legislation. included in the bill, citizenship for 11 million undocumented workers in this country. >> other bipartisan groups and senators have stood in the same spot before trumpeting similar pro po sales. the politics on this issue have been turned upside down. for the first time ever, there's more political risk in opposing immigration reform than supporting it. >> what's going on now is unacceptable. in reality, what's been created is a de facto amnesty. we have been too content for too long to allow them to mow our lawn, serve our food, clean our homes and watch our children while not affording them the benefits that make our country great. >> those seeking citizenship would be required to register with the federal government, settle debts with the government including fines and back taxes, under go a criminal background ch
president obama is going to unveil his immigration reform in a major speech in nevada, a state where hispanics make up 20% of the population. it's after a group of bipartisan senators reached a compromise on how to move forward with comprehensive immigration legislation. included in the bill, citizenship for 11 million undocumented workers in this country. >> other bipartisan groups and senators have stood in the same spot before trumpeting similar pro po sales. the politics on this issue...
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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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. >> john, you, as well, you know nevada better than anyone. that is your town and you write extensively on the demographics, the change. we have talked about reid and his victory there and certainly some would have said was beatible but not by sharon angle. with that said, you have got the president on the ground in nevada. why is that -- i guess a perfect place if you will for this launch to hear from him in about 40 minutes or so? >> well, tamron, even though we are not a border state, we are an emblem of what's happening in this country. the hispanic population is burgeoning for sometime. now about a quarter of the state. it was about 20% of the electorate and talk about the election results that john mccain was talking about yesterday. barack obama won the latino vote about 55 points here in 2012. about the same percentage that he won by in 2008. and look at where the president is going today to make the announcement. going to a high school which is about 62% hispanic population of kids. maybe the biggest problem in this state facing the e
. >> john, you, as well, you know nevada better than anyone. that is your town and you write extensively on the demographics, the change. we have talked about reid and his victory there and certainly some would have said was beatible but not by sharon angle. with that said, you have got the president on the ground in nevada. why is that -- i guess a perfect place if you will for this launch to hear from him in about 40 minutes or so? >> well, tamron, even though we are not a border...
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Jan 25, 2013
01/13
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people who live on the border of nevada and california are making the quick move to nevada? >> well, that's the people living on the border, but people from all sorts of places in california who want to avoid the california tax, a lot of them are thinking about packing up and moving and a lot of them are doing it. >> greta: what would be the reason, folks from deeper into the state away from nevada, but if you live on the border of california, unless you're really wedded to your house, why not move the mile into nevada and save yourself 13.3%? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> when does it make sense? suppose i have a business in california and i'm thinking of selling my business, should i move to inform nenevada before it or stuck paying the taxes no matter what. >> depends on the sale. if you're selling stock in the business, for example, you could very well become a non-resident of california by moving to a state like nevada and then subsequent to establishing residencesy in nevada sell the stock in the your business and even though the business operates, say, exclusively in
people who live on the border of nevada and california are making the quick move to nevada? >> well, that's the people living on the border, but people from all sorts of places in california who want to avoid the california tax, a lot of them are thinking about packing up and moving and a lot of them are doing it. >> greta: what would be the reason, folks from deeper into the state away from nevada, but if you live on the border of california, unless you're really wedded to your...
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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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>> jennifer: that tv ad aired in nevada. fortunately, the president got the last laugh by carrying nevada and then returning to las vegas today. and then today's speech wasn't really about votes. maybe it was a bit but really it was deeper than that. president obama is actually trying to find a solution. and in doing so he inspires, a we just said, those of us whose families came to this exceptional family to make a life. it's my story. unless you're a native american, it's your story too. now the question is whether the congress will be able to overcome the tired and old arguments and make it their story, a bipartisan tale as well. with us to break down the road ahead for immigration reform is "newsweek" daily beast correspondent michael tomasky who joins us from washington, d.c. welcomed in "the war room." >> good evening nice to be with you. >> jennifer: great to have you in the chair. there are some potential roadblocks for both sides of the aisle, are there not? for example tying citizenship to board security, the futur
>> jennifer: that tv ad aired in nevada. fortunately, the president got the last laugh by carrying nevada and then returning to las vegas today. and then today's speech wasn't really about votes. maybe it was a bit but really it was deeper than that. president obama is actually trying to find a solution. and in doing so he inspires, a we just said, those of us whose families came to this exceptional family to make a life. it's my story. unless you're a native american, it's your story...
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Jan 19, 2013
01/13
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see what the proposals are and for people in the senate, not just in california, look, harry reid in nevada, who is an nra supporter, who's had the nra's support. this is going to be a very tough challenge for him to take on. and he's already sort of making noise that at this point, wait a minute, we're going to have to look at all these proposals. some of them like the checks, background check, really have much more sort of universal support. other things like the assault weapons ban, much tougher to get through. >> i mean, this is harry reid's biggest nightmare having the senate go first on assault weapons ban. this is not something he wants to bring up. i don't think he's, you know, my guess is there are a number of moderate democrats who come from states that are pro-gun states and they, i mean, we know that the last time that washington passed an assault weapons ban, that hurt democrats on the ballot the next time. and this is not a battle everyone in the democratic leadership wants. >> let's bring us now to the local level. i want to bring scott back into this, because i know that you
see what the proposals are and for people in the senate, not just in california, look, harry reid in nevada, who is an nra supporter, who's had the nra's support. this is going to be a very tough challenge for him to take on. and he's already sort of making noise that at this point, wait a minute, we're going to have to look at all these proposals. some of them like the checks, background check, really have much more sort of universal support. other things like the assault weapons ban, much...
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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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so today alan's in a second year at the college of southern nevada. alan's studying to become a doctor. he hopes to join the air force. he's working hard every single day to build a better life for himself and his family. and all he wants is the opportunity to do his part to build a better america. so in the coming weeks, as the idea of reform becomes more real, and the debate becomes more heated and there are folk who is are trying to pull this thing apart, remember alan. and all those who share the same hopes and the same dreams. remember that this is not just a debate about policy. it's about people. it's about men and women. and young people. who want nothing more than the chance to earn their way in to the american story. and throughout our history, that's only made our nation stronger. and it's how we'll make sure that this century is the same as the last, an american century, welcoming of everybody who aspires to do something more. is willing to work hard to do it. is willing to pledge that allegiance to our flag. thank you. god bless you. god
so today alan's in a second year at the college of southern nevada. alan's studying to become a doctor. he hopes to join the air force. he's working hard every single day to build a better life for himself and his family. and all he wants is the opportunity to do his part to build a better america. so in the coming weeks, as the idea of reform becomes more real, and the debate becomes more heated and there are folk who is are trying to pull this thing apart, remember alan. and all those who...
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Jan 28, 2013
01/13
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we'll talk about this more with the president in nevada tomorrow. another breaking story we are following, this came down also about 20 minutes ago with the boy scouts of america and the ban on gay scouts and scout leaders. nbc's justice correspondent pete williams joins me now and i understand the boy scouts released a statement? >> they have. what we have learned is that the boy scouts are actively considering changing their decades' old policy that prevents gay scouts or gay scout leaders if joining the organization. what we're told is that this is under active consideration, the board of boy scouts of america will consider this next week and could vote on it and change the policy as early as next week. in response to the story, the boy scouts issued a statement and here's the key of what they say is how the policy would work. the chartered organizations they say that oversee and deliver scouting would accept membership and leaders consistent with their organization's mission, principles or religious beliefs. and it goes on to say the statement d
we'll talk about this more with the president in nevada tomorrow. another breaking story we are following, this came down also about 20 minutes ago with the boy scouts of america and the ban on gay scouts and scout leaders. nbc's justice correspondent pete williams joins me now and i understand the boy scouts released a statement? >> they have. what we have learned is that the boy scouts are actively considering changing their decades' old policy that prevents gay scouts or gay scout...
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Jan 24, 2013
01/13
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click or call. >>> last night at this hour, we went live to nevada to cover the washington lobbyists for mass murderers, wayne lapierre, delivering a similar rant against president obama's second inaugural address. >> i would like to talk to you about one line near the end of president obama, speech, where he said "we cannot mistake absolutism for principle." let me quote the president again. we cannot mistake absolutism for principle. >> well, okay. but when i heard the president say that, gun control did not come to mind. i thought he was talking about modern-day republicans, which is to say neanderthal republicans, who will under no circumstances raise taxes or include spending on anything, except of course, when they increase spending on things that they like. crazy wayne quoted only one person to support his defense of absolutism. a supreme court justice. no, not anton scalia, the most conservative member of the court, because justice scalia disagrees with lapierre on the second amendment. he does not believe that the right to bear arms is absolute. >> what limitations on the ri
click or call. >>> last night at this hour, we went live to nevada to cover the washington lobbyists for mass murderers, wayne lapierre, delivering a similar rant against president obama's second inaugural address. >> i would like to talk to you about one line near the end of president obama, speech, where he said "we cannot mistake absolutism for principle." let me quote the president again. we cannot mistake absolutism for principle. >> well, okay. but when i...
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Jan 24, 2013
01/13
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. >> last night in nevada, the head of the nra used a quote from a former supreme court justice to support the claim that the second amendment guarantees an absolute right to have any kind of gun you want. the trouble is, the supreme court justice he quoted did not believe that. that is next in the rewrite. [ dog barks ] ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] something powerful is coming. ♪ see it on february 3rd. ♪ >>> last night at this hour, we went live to nevada to cover the washington lobbyists for mass murderers, wayne lapierre, delivering a similar rant against president obama's second inaugural address. >> >> i would like to talk to you about one line near the end of president obama, speech, where he said "we cannot mistake absolutism for principle." let me quote the president again. we cannot mistake absolutism for principle. >> well, okay. but when i heard the president say that, gun control did not come to mind. i thought he was talking about modern-day republicans, which is to say neanderthal republicans, who will under no circumstances raise taxes or include spending on anything, exc
. >> last night in nevada, the head of the nra used a quote from a former supreme court justice to support the claim that the second amendment guarantees an absolute right to have any kind of gun you want. the trouble is, the supreme court justice he quoted did not believe that. that is next in the rewrite. [ dog barks ] ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] something powerful is coming. ♪ see it on february 3rd. ♪ >>> last night at this hour, we went live to nevada to cover the...
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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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CURRENT
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. >> first of all the president is still going to nevada tomorrow and delivering a speech that we all expect will have a very aggressive and forward lean on the issue of immigration. giving these senator space to come forward to these proposal is if you are motivated by real solutions we all know we need to get a deal to the president's desk. and it was important to do that. >> jennifer: yeah i'm -- i'm glad to see that you can -- you know, set your ego aside and allow the senate to come forward with something that is by partisan, and if the president lobbed his own plan in that, who knows what would have happened. matt, are you worried that jan brewer and other border-state officials will end up vetoing, essentially these immigration measures by having to certedfy? >> yeah i think you have hit on exactly what was the biggest troubling point in this framework. this clause that says there must be contingent upon securing the borders is something we have heard for a long time. and in poll after poll latino voters have said what if we have to wait until the borders are secure they have s
. >> first of all the president is still going to nevada tomorrow and delivering a speech that we all expect will have a very aggressive and forward lean on the issue of immigration. giving these senator space to come forward to these proposal is if you are motivated by real solutions we all know we need to get a deal to the president's desk. and it was important to do that. >> jennifer: yeah i'm -- i'm glad to see that you can -- you know, set your ego aside and allow the senate to...
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Jan 19, 2013
01/13
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americans who want to escape kim moved to alaska florida and new hampshire nevada south dakota tennessee texas washington and royal bank. all have state
americans who want to escape kim moved to alaska florida and new hampshire nevada south dakota tennessee texas washington and royal bank. all have state
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Jan 13, 2013
01/13
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after flying to reno nevada to decade quick divorce. it was not easy. she came back and drove her car directly into the middle of a riot in washington d.c. right after margin mr. king was assassinated and the city exploded. 1968 was a time of major turmoil and a huge time of change j niort life. you got a divorce after a long marriage and a time when the women's movement was beginning to get under way in the united states. but not bothered by the women's movement? it was something else. >> guest: no. in to be very inspired of the pioneer women who settled this country and to know my ancestors it was very insulated. coming to the country reading about the of pioneers we found that very inspiring and there was a wonderful greek admiral. but i love the stories of the pioneers in statement much more in my life they did not think much of that. >> host: your marriage to richard helms 1968 was one of the most productive times in your life. you have the opportunity to have a life of your own. the children were grown in doing well in school. you were getting inv
after flying to reno nevada to decade quick divorce. it was not easy. she came back and drove her car directly into the middle of a riot in washington d.c. right after margin mr. king was assassinated and the city exploded. 1968 was a time of major turmoil and a huge time of change j niort life. you got a divorce after a long marriage and a time when the women's movement was beginning to get under way in the united states. but not bothered by the women's movement? it was something else....
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Jan 29, 2013
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president obama is en route to nevada at this hour. a state that has come to symbolize the power and importance of the growing latino vote. the president is expected to lay out his own vision for immigration reform and show his public support for the bipartisan senate plan that was announced only yesterday. >> joining me now for our daily fix chris cali sfwl sxwl a, managing editor of post politics.com, and susan page, washington bureau chief for usa today. chris, what we are told is contrary to some reports that there is not a great deal of distance between what the president is going to say tow today and what the senate announced, at least as far as it goes, if the senate were to collapse, the senate plan were to collapse, then he might come out with perhaps a more liberal plan, but he is pretty much in sync on the advice of the congressional hispanic caucus to stay in line with what they're doing on the hill? >> that's incredibly meaningful because what that means is that it's not two tracks that this is running on. it's one track.
president obama is en route to nevada at this hour. a state that has come to symbolize the power and importance of the growing latino vote. the president is expected to lay out his own vision for immigration reform and show his public support for the bipartisan senate plan that was announced only yesterday. >> joining me now for our daily fix chris cali sfwl sxwl a, managing editor of post politics.com, and susan page, washington bureau chief for usa today. chris, what we are told is...
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Jan 18, 2013
01/13
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here is what senate majority leader harry reid recently told a local pbs station in nevada. "let's be realistic," he said. "in the senate we're going to do what we think can get through the house, and i'm not going to go through a bunch of gyrations just to say that we've done something. if we're really legislators, the purpose of it is to pass legislation." senator reid did not show the same kind of hesitation with another moral issue, relief for superstorm sandy. the relief package was passed by the senate even though house speaker john boehner hadn't brought it up for a vote. in fact, the senate passage helped to put pressure on the house. sandy relief passed in the house with a minority of republican votes and almost every democrat. speaker boehner would not have brought the bill to the floor if it hadn't already been passed in the senate. there was similar pressure with the fiscal cliff deal. it passed in the senate first. then boehner was forced to bring it to the floor for a vote and the house, even though only a minority of republicans supported it. today senator maj
here is what senate majority leader harry reid recently told a local pbs station in nevada. "let's be realistic," he said. "in the senate we're going to do what we think can get through the house, and i'm not going to go through a bunch of gyrations just to say that we've done something. if we're really legislators, the purpose of it is to pass legislation." senator reid did not show the same kind of hesitation with another moral issue, relief for superstorm sandy. the...
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Jan 31, 2013
01/13
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oregon, nevada, north carolina, south carolina so people are moving south. that's definitely the case. >> oh, absolutely. gerri: a quick story before we came to air saying you were able to actually nab a present for your company that you otherwise would have not been able to get if he had to move to new york or new jersey. >> that's right. he's a perfect example. the president here was a managing directer at ubs, and every day he would wake up at 4:30, and he would get to the office after going through tremendous commute from new jersey, spending a ton of money on gas, on tolls, on parking, finally got into the office, and getting home late in the evening. what that did was it -- it disallowed him to enjoy his child's or that period in his child's life. he basically missed out; right? he didn't see them grow up, missed them because of the commute and workload. whereas, here, he's able to come to work at 8:30, go home at 5:30 and enjoy the time with his children that he otherwise would not have been able to have. gerri: wow. i can relate to that. don't push a
oregon, nevada, north carolina, south carolina so people are moving south. that's definitely the case. >> oh, absolutely. gerri: a quick story before we came to air saying you were able to actually nab a present for your company that you otherwise would have not been able to get if he had to move to new york or new jersey. >> that's right. he's a perfect example. the president here was a managing directer at ubs, and every day he would wake up at 4:30, and he would get to the office...
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Jan 30, 2013
01/13
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the president launched his effort in nevada where more than a quarter of the state's residents are hispanic. >> i'm here today because the time has come for common sense, comprehends i have been immigration reform. ( cheers and applause ) the time is now. >> woodruff: the campaign-style event at a las vegas high school came a day after a bipartisan group of eight u.s. senators put forward their own plan. it calls for creating a path to legal citizenship for the 11 million undocumented people now estimated to be living in the u.s implementing that policy would be contingent on securing the southern border. seven years ago then senator obama the joined a similar effort >> if the compromise that's been discussed and has the agreement of those who were in this room, if that ends up being the bill that is signed into law, it's a win-win for everybody >> woodruff: today president obama praised the new senate effort. he said the path to citizenship must be clear from the start and not just be tied to border security. >> we have to lay out a path, a process that includes passing a background check,
the president launched his effort in nevada where more than a quarter of the state's residents are hispanic. >> i'm here today because the time has come for common sense, comprehends i have been immigration reform. ( cheers and applause ) the time is now. >> woodruff: the campaign-style event at a las vegas high school came a day after a bipartisan group of eight u.s. senators put forward their own plan. it calls for creating a path to legal citizenship for the 11 million...
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Jan 31, 2013
01/13
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. >> you were with the president when he we want to nevada this week, spoke on immigration. there does seem to be despite all the obstacles a sense of possibility now that we have a bipartisan coalition in the senate. what is your percent peck having been with the president on air force one. >> i think that there's obviously this grand movement now and this collaboration on a bipartisan level, to that helps to set the environment, i think, but there's still a lot of work to do. the president admits that as we get closer to a resolution or an actual law, that it's going to be tougher. there will be a lot of sack feeses made there. we still need the public to be engaged, and that's why he went out directly to las vegas where the support was overwhelming for him, for many progressives who were thinking about immigration reform, and i think it was a good way of telling the latino community and all the other immigrant groups that right now are faced with problems and immigration because it's a broken system, that, hey, we're going to get this done. we're going to get it done if n
. >> you were with the president when he we want to nevada this week, spoke on immigration. there does seem to be despite all the obstacles a sense of possibility now that we have a bipartisan coalition in the senate. what is your percent peck having been with the president on air force one. >> i think that there's obviously this grand movement now and this collaboration on a bipartisan level, to that helps to set the environment, i think, but there's still a lot of work to do. the...
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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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the president launched his effort in nevada where more than a quarter of the state's residents are hispanic. >> i'm here today because the time has come for common sense, comprehends i have been immigration reform. ( cheers and applause ) the time is now. >> woodruff: the campaign-style event at a las vegas high school came a day after a bipartisan group of eight u.s. senators put forward their own plan. it calls for creating a path to legal citizenship for the 11 million undocumented people now estimated to be living in the u.s implementing that policy would be contingent on securing the southern border. seven years ago then senator obama the joined a similar effort >> if the compromise that's been discussed and has the agreement of those who were in this room, if that ends up being the bill that is signed into law, it's a win-win for everybody >> woodruff: today president obama praised the new senate effort. he said the path to citizenship must be clear from the start and not just be tied to border security. >> we have to lay out a path a process that includes passing a background check p
the president launched his effort in nevada where more than a quarter of the state's residents are hispanic. >> i'm here today because the time has come for common sense, comprehends i have been immigration reform. ( cheers and applause ) the time is now. >> woodruff: the campaign-style event at a las vegas high school came a day after a bipartisan group of eight u.s. senators put forward their own plan. it calls for creating a path to legal citizenship for the 11 million...
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Jan 28, 2013
01/13
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has just outlined his own vision for immigration reform with a major speech tomorrow in las vegas, nevada. recent polling shows a majority of people are in favor of a plan allowing undocumented immigrants to become legal u.s. residents. >>> another big policy issue on the white house agenda this morning, gun control. the president and vice president biden are meeting with police chiefs from all over the country including aurora, colorado and newtown, connecticut. senator diane feinstein who introduced legislation that includes a ban on assault weapons acknowledged it will be a challenge getting it through congress. >> this has always been an uphill fight. this has never been easy. this is the hardest of the hard. now will it only be assault weapons? no, most likely. there will be a package put together. if assault weapons is leftage a of the judiciary, number two, i've been assured i'll be able to do it as an amendment on the floor which is the way i did it in 1993 so that doesn't particularly bother me. >>> in an interview with the new republic president obama said he has a profound resp
has just outlined his own vision for immigration reform with a major speech tomorrow in las vegas, nevada. recent polling shows a majority of people are in favor of a plan allowing undocumented immigrants to become legal u.s. residents. >>> another big policy issue on the white house agenda this morning, gun control. the president and vice president biden are meeting with police chiefs from all over the country including aurora, colorado and newtown, connecticut. senator diane...
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Jan 30, 2013
01/13
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. >> president obama went to a high school today in what used to be mexico, las vegas, nevada, to urge congress to overhaul the immigration system. >> today i'm laying out my ideas for immigration reform. and my hope is that this provides some key markers to members of congress as they craft a bill. because the ideas i'm proposing have traditionally been supported by both democrats like ted kennedy and republicans like president george w. bush. you don't get that matchup very often. >> the president's plan is similar to the plan eight bipartisan senators put forward yesterday, but it has not even cleared the path to citizenship for the 11 million illegal immigrants in the united states now. >> for comprehensive immigration reform to work, it must be clear from the outset that there is a path to citizenship. we have got to lay out a path. a process that includes passing a background check. paying taxes, paying a penalty. learning english. and then going to the back of the line behind all the folks who are trying to come here legally. that is only fair. all right. >> under the president'
. >> president obama went to a high school today in what used to be mexico, las vegas, nevada, to urge congress to overhaul the immigration system. >> today i'm laying out my ideas for immigration reform. and my hope is that this provides some key markers to members of congress as they craft a bill. because the ideas i'm proposing have traditionally been supported by both democrats like ted kennedy and republicans like president george w. bush. you don't get that matchup very often....
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Jan 29, 2013
01/13
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president obama is flying to nevada to push the issue there. there was a flash of the old straight talking john mccain today when he was asked why republicans are suddenly ready to compromise so much on immigration. >> one, as i have stated before elections, elections, the republican party is losing the support of our hispanic citizens. and we realize that there are many issues in which we think we are in agreement with our hispanic citizens. but this is a preeminent issue with those citizens. >> today's developments left one right-wing republican observer completely dumbfounded. >> if the democrats think their position on immigration, let's use that for example, is the right one, and if the democrats' position is what is getting all that support from hispanic voters, what i don't understand is why would the democrats want to give up some of those voters to the republicans? can somebody help me out here. >> i don't know, rush, sounds like you're beyond help, but i'll give it a try. what you are seeing is not a compromise on immigration. you are
president obama is flying to nevada to push the issue there. there was a flash of the old straight talking john mccain today when he was asked why republicans are suddenly ready to compromise so much on immigration. >> one, as i have stated before elections, elections, the republican party is losing the support of our hispanic citizens. and we realize that there are many issues in which we think we are in agreement with our hispanic citizens. but this is a preeminent issue with those...
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Jan 13, 2013
01/13
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reno, nevada, 9 degrees. back east, pittsburgh will be 66 tomorrow. 30 degrees above normal. columbia, south carolina, nearly 80. and in california tonight, farmers, like this one near fresno, are struggling to save their crops from the cold. standing watch at night. some farmers with fans blowing warm air on their field. meteorologist ginger zee standing by with what's causing this. but first, clayton sandell is in the heartland. >> reporter: overnight, temperatures again fell into the 30s in southern california, farmers are working around the clock to protect multimillion-dollar citrus crops. >> we have a defense system set up for the cold. to try and protect whatever we can, but also, mainly to keep the field warm. >> reporter: at the beach in santa monica, tourists wondered what happened to the sunshine? >> we expected it to be a little bit warmer, but my mom just came back from san francisco a month ago, so she told me, it wasn't as hot as we could imagine. >> reporter: that cold now pushing east. storms slamming parts of utah with almost 4 feet of snow. >> it was really
reno, nevada, 9 degrees. back east, pittsburgh will be 66 tomorrow. 30 degrees above normal. columbia, south carolina, nearly 80. and in california tonight, farmers, like this one near fresno, are struggling to save their crops from the cold. standing watch at night. some farmers with fans blowing warm air on their field. meteorologist ginger zee standing by with what's causing this. but first, clayton sandell is in the heartland. >> reporter: overnight, temperatures again fell into the...